Project managers discuss the customer's role in delivery

Frode Stenstrøm: Today I have brought Thomas and Marie from ProsessPilotenes project office into the studio. I have challenged them to give us some advice on how projects can actually succeed, which risk factors one should be aware of, and how, for example, you as a customer can help contribute to actually achieving greater success with the projects you take on. My name is Frode Stenstrøm, and this is ProsessPodden. And I said that I had brought Thomas and Marie, so I would like to welcome you and Marie here. Who are you, and what is your connection to succeeding in projects? Marie Andersson: Thank you very much, thank you for having me. My name is Marie Andersson, and today I work both as a project manager and as head of our project office at ProsessPilotene. I have worked with CRM for 15 years, where primarily improving and developing customer relationships has been what I have worked on. And I have been both on the customer side and now as a consultant, which means that I have experienced how important good collaboration between customer and supplier is, and I believe that is a success factor. Frode Stenstrøm: How exciting. Thomas, welcome to you too! Who are you, and what is your connection to the topic? Thomas Stene: Yes, thank you. My name is Thomas Stene, and I am a project manager at ProsessPilotene. For the past 20 years, I have had the pleasure of working with customers who have very different prerequisites for both succeeding and failing. And success criteria are, of course, closely linked to risk. And in my work as a project manager, I find it exciting to be able to work proactively on this. Frode Stenstrøm: Thank you, and welcome to both of you. The first topic is how our customers can help the project succeed. And what are your best tips, Marie? Marie Andersson: Yes, I would like to highlight the project owner as a key success factor. As a supplier, we naturally want the customer to feel that they have gained something from the project, that they achieved the benefits the project set out to deliver. So our experience tells us that the customers who experience that are those who have generally had a strong, clear, and engaged project owner involved in the project. So first and foremost, the project owner should be responsible for achieving the project's goals and steering toward them. Frode Stenstrøm: How can customers contribute to success before the project has even begun? Thomas Stene: Yes, before the project starts, it is important to establish a business case and reflect on why the project should be carried out, which processes one wants to improve, which benefits one wants to achieve, whether we have something that is easy to accomplish and provides good value, which goals one wants to achieve, and whether there are any KPIs or metrics to monitor whether the goals are being achieved. Then it is about anchoring the business case, and it is almost impossible to do too much anchoring. Our projects often involve changing or creating new processes for how people work, and there is a lot of change management involved. So that anchoring helps create motivation and helps the organization adapt to the change resulting from the project. Frode Stenstrøm: What are your best tips, Marie, for how a customer should organize themselves? Marie Andersson: Our best projects are those where the customer and supplier manage to collaborate well and find complementary roles to create a good delivery team. So really putting together a team with the right expertise, with a good understanding of the process to be implemented, and really thinking through how to find the right key people that are needed, is the first step. Then one should also establish a steering committee. Which can take part in the project, make decisions along the way, and provide support. And it should also have the right mix of people. And perhaps even before starting, one should also consider which ambassadors one has out in the organization. Find those individuals who are a little more passionate about what the project aims to achieve. To bring them along on the journey, and get them to contribute. So creating a we-culture with some room for openness, where one can have good discussions, share information, and work effectively together, where both customer and supplier can ultimately be proud of their final product, is something we believe in. Frode Stenstrøm: So if I understand you correctly, the tips summarized here are especially that before the project begins, you establish the reasons and the background, Thomas, for a steering committee. And not least a project owner who drives the process. Thomas Stene: That is a good start, at least. Frode Stenstrøm: If we move on to the transition from the project's start, when it has been approved, and the steering committee has given the go-ahead, to the implementation phase. Marie, what do you think are good tips for getting the project off to a good start? Marie Andersson: Yes, we usually start our projects with a kick-off, and the kick-off is a formal marking of the project's commencement. A very effective method for starting a project and bringing together all the individuals who will be working together. What we see is that when we hold a kick-off for our project, it is most effective and best if the customer themselves presents the project, and the background to the project, and above all why it is to be carried out. It is important to ensure that everyone understands the background, including the current challenges, and the bigger picture of what one wants to achieve, and again, the goals. This is absolutely best done by the customer themselves, and preferably the project's project owner. Thomas Stene: May I add something about the kick-off? To ensure that everyone takes ownership of collaborating well, we often let the project group itself reflect on and establish principles for good collaboration. That is certainly a tip we can recommend for giving the project a good start. Frode Stenstrøm: And if I may add one of my own experiences, all companies and cultures have different ways of interacting and communicating. Some manage a great deal via email, some use Teams, some use Post-it notes, so in that dialogue, they have discussed how they are going to collaborate. I think we Norwegians often skip over that: yes, but shouldn't we just start working? In other words, we forget that there are—we forget that there are people who need to get to know one another. Thomas Stene: Yes, it is often simply given lower priority. Frode Stenstrøm: I have seen projects where almost a month was spent just on the first phase, but if you are going to work together for three years, then that is actually not much time; it makes for a completely different journey. Thomas Stene: I think even if you are only going to work together for half a year, making that investment initially provides very good value. Frode Stenstrøm: And simply talking about the expectations of one another in communication. Now we have talked a little about how customers can help ensure a very good project start, but Thomas, what should customers do during the project to achieve a better result? Thomas Stene: Yes, for new implementation projects, we often recommend a step-by-step approach, where one first establishes a so-called MVP, or most viable product, which in principle is a minimum solution. And the point then is that the customer's project owner takes responsibility for defining this MVP by identifying what is primarily needed to get started with the solution. Frode Stenstrøm: That ties in with what you, Marie, said about ownership on the customer side. But why do that, Thomas? Thomas Stene: Yes, the point is that the sooner one gets started and gains experience with the solution, the sooner one can better define the desired goals for the road ahead as well, instead of potentially wasting effort on something that turns out to be less important. Frode Stenstrøm: Marie, what other contributions should the customer make throughout the project's implementation? Marie Andersson: It is important that the customer takes responsibility as early as possible for the requirements, which we usually describe as user stories, and that they define the acceptance criteria for what is to be established. So being a good client and being able to define good requirements helps us greatly as a supplier. Frode Stenstrøm: Thomas? Thomas Stene: Yes, I agree with that, Marie. I can also add that the customer must allocate sufficient time to participate in testing and approving the incremental deliveries we are talking about. And the earlier we discover things that are not as expected, the easier it is for us to adjust as well. Marie Andersson: Yes, we usually conduct retrospectives during the project, and a retrospective means learning from the experiences one has had. look at how things have gone so far, and adapt it to the next period, so it helps a lot if you as a customer are engaged in it, and can provide good, constructive feedback on how we as a team can improve. And I also think it's important to start early and plan how to introduce the solution to the users. It's good to make a solid plan, because we perhaps haven't talked much about that so far. Frode Stenstrøm: User adoption? Marie Andersson: User adoption, yes. Yes. Frode Stenstrøm: If I may add a couple of tips that I'm often passionate about, it's being able to see early on what the solution should achieve, and testing it against different working hypotheses. If you know that you need a solution that should both support some kind of process, but perhaps also be used for insight and analysis, and perhaps enable an e-commerce portal, then I'm very concerned that you don't just look at one thing, but test what you're going to build against different use cases before you actually build it, so you don't have to rebuild it. Because we often get a bit of tunnel vision. Forgetting to test costs a lot of time. But late changes are always more expensive than early changes. If we're to give some brief and specific tips on what the customer should contribute after the project has been completed, when we're no longer there, what happens then, Thomas? Thomas Stene: Yes, we can continue with this matter of user adoption, which you mentioned, Marie. The projects we work on often involve changes to both work processes and systems, and the solutions we establish have no value if they aren't used, and that's why it's important that customers focus on how users are introduced both to what they want to achieve, and how the solution will support the work processes. Focusing on following up with users is critical to the project's success, but is often underestimated and deprioritized. It's worth noting that nearly 90 percent of learning takes place after the initial formal training. This is something we have usually already discussed with the customer and developed a good strategy for. Frode Stenstrøm: And this is, of course, familiar from education, when you go to university and study a subject. It's only when you start working that you really learn things, right? So I think it's the same here too. Are there any other aspects, Marie, that you would highlight after the project is finished? Marie Andersson: Yes, I think that you should evaluate the project after it ends, and reviewing the original project objectives and assessing to what extent they have been achieved is useful. And that you perhaps identify some lessons learned during the project, and preferably document them and share them within the organization, so that the next project you carry out can benefit from them. So you've learned something from it. And I also think that you should have made a small plan for continuous improvement of the system. Many customers establish a forum with various stakeholders in the organization who continue working on further development and can identify areas for improvement and share experiences and solve problems or challenges related to the CRM system. So the users out there have someone to turn to. Frode Stenstrøm: And this is really where project ownership comes in, establishing a way to adapt it, because it's not like an apple you buy and eat and then it's done; continuous improvement needs to take place, and you need to realize the benefits from it over time as well. The next topic we're going to talk about is risk. All projects, by their very nature, have some form of risk, and I'm wondering which risk factors customers can most easily influence themselves. Marie and Thomas, can you take us through the risks you usually see, and, not least, where the customer has the most influence? Thomas Stene: Yes, I can start. As project managers, we discuss with the customer how they themselves can reduce risk in the project. If we are to point out some of the most common risks where the customer has... A great deal of influence, then at the top of my list is the risk of unclear objectives. And it's surprising how many projects fail to clearly define what they want to achieve with the project. Frode Stenstrøm: That takes us back to what you mentioned initially about the lack of a business case, doesn't it? Thomas Stene: This is closely connected to that. And then you risk building a solution that doesn't meet the needs. In the best-case scenario, you then incur an additional cost by modifying the solution afterwards. But you may also have to start over, and either way it delays the benefits you want to achieve. Frode Stenstrøm: What do you think a customer should contribute here, Thomas? Thomas Stene: I think the most important contribution is to initially map routines and processes with a focus on what creates value. Frode Stenstrøm: Marie, is there a risk factor you're concerned about? Marie Andersson: Yes, I'm thinking of a lack of management buy-in. If management doesn't get sufficiently involved in the project, there is a risk of not achieving the objectives or the benefits you want to achieve. So in the worst case, one consequence may be that the system is not adopted by the users. Frode Stenstrøm: What do you think the customer should do to avoid that? Marie Andersson: The best thing you can do is establish a steering group and let them follow the project and help guide it throughout the project. Frode Stenstrøm: Who should be in this group? Marie Andersson: People who have relevant experience and those in the organization who can help contribute to achieving those goals. Frode Stenstrøm: Right. Thomas, do you have a third risk? Thomas Stene: Yes, there are lots of risks to choose from, but I can mention taking on too much, which we've also touched on a little earlier. This is a classic case where customers at the start of the project are too ambitious about what they want to include in the scope, and how much they think they can accomplish within a given time frame. Frode Stenstrøm: What are the consequences, Thomas? Thomas Stene: It may mean missing deadlines and quality targets, the usual things, but often in combination with some people perhaps becoming overworked, perhaps going on sick leave or finding alternative employment. Frode Stenstrøm: And what do you think the customer should do to avoid taking on too much? Thomas Stene: I think choosing a phased approach is important, and prioritizing rigorously what you want to achieve. Put nice-to-have items in the backlog for the next round. Frode Stenstrøm: Marie, you surely have something too, which we talked about. Marie Andersson: I think that once the project is underway, it's not unusual for the scope of the delivery to grow. It's easy for new ideas to creep in along the way that you have neither allocated time nor budget to cover. So what we call scope creep is a risk. So that means that when the scope or delivery has become larger than what was originally intended and agreed, the consequence is that it will impact both time and cost. Frode Stenstrøm: What do you think the customer should do to prevent the project from becoming larger than originally intended? Marie Andersson: We've talked about the project manager role before and mentioned it several times, but here again I think that this role should be actively involved in managing and prioritizing the new items that arise. Perhaps when something comes in, something else may have to be taken out. Frode Stenstrøm: Yes, if I may sum up what you said, I heard you talk about unclear objectives, insufficient buy-in, taking on too much, and simply expanding along the way. The four most important risk factors you highlight, as Thomas said, there are certainly more. But if we're to wrap up there, I'd like some tips from you that might make those listening think that if they do this, they'll have a better and more successful project. Marie, what would that be? Marie Andersson: Yes, in my role as project manager, I'm very passionate about building and developing teams that together can find good solutions and deliver good projects. Frode Stenstrøm: And Thomas? Thomas Stene: I'm a strong advocate of working in iterations, being able to tackle it piece by piece and align along the way. I think that's an important success factor for projects. At least, it's satisfying for me as a project manager. Frode Stenstrøm: Thank you both very much for the many constructive tips for our customers. This podcast was produced by ProsessPilotene. ProsessPilotene increases the value of your customers through the use of Microsoft technology. This podcast can be found everywhere you listen to podcasts, as well as on the website https://radio.Prosesspilotene.no. We would like to remind you that you can also follow us on YouTube, on our YouTube channel, search for ProsessPilotene there. The person responsible for this podcast is me, Frode Stenstrøm We would love to hear from you, both feedback and if you would like to take part in an interview in the future. So feel free to contact me on LinkedIn. Wishing everyone better work processes, and until next time!